In Hardcore, seldom will you find a vocalist who’s career spans multiple decades, with multiple bands. Scott Vogel is one of these lifers. During the 90’s, he’s fronted a string of highly regarded bands from his native Buffalo, NY, starting with Slugfest, then Despair and finally the quintessential Buried Alive. One of the heaviest and most energetic band of our own golden era of HC, B.A. rejoiced the scene with a number of most improbable reunion shows in 2018. This week, they are releasing an even more unexpected new 7″ on Bridge Nine Records, including the killer track I Killing I.
Of course, most will know Scott as frontman of Hardcore flag bearers Terror, since 2002. While the pandemic has robbed us all of our dose of stage dive and singalong madness that is live Terror, the band connects with the world these days through sticktight.la, sharing heaps of great material, including podcasts, unreleased music, videos and more.
As if it wasn’t enough, you can count on him to periodically release music with various side projects, such as World Be Free. This all-star cast, including members of Judge, Gorilla Biscuits, Strife, etc, had released a LP of no-frills melodic Hardcore a few years ago, to be followed up with an upcoming 5-song EP on Revelation Records in the fall.
What have you been listening to the most lately?
Podcasts. Lots and lots of podcasts, like the Broad Street Breakdown with Vinnie Paz podcast. There’s a newer podcast called Enterprise Hardcore podcast done by a kid in Rochester and it’s got a lot of people from Buffalo so that’s been pretty interesting to me. There’s a lot of different music podcasts. You know, I’ve had a lot of free time on my hands lately so taking a lot of walks and bike rides and stuff like that. But if we’re going to go into music, go-to music for me is a lot of stuff like HOT WATER MUSIC, LIFETIME, SPLIT LIP, FALLING FORWARD, that type of stuff. If it’s Hardcore, a lot of old Youth Crew stuff, like CHAIN OF STRENGTH and BOLD, TURNING POINT pretty often. And lots and lots of Hip Hop.
In terms of Hip Hop, what’s your favorite scene/era? Do you have anything specific that you go to or anything goes, as long as the artist is good?
It’s not exclusive to but the most stuff I listen to is from the Queensbridge stuff like TRAGEDY KHADAFI, CORMEGA, NAS and MOBB DEPP and all that shit. That would be my go to.
What would be your top 5 favorite rappers?
That’s a tough one. There was a time when Nas would be the first thing out of my mouth immediately but I hate to say that, I think he’s gotten worse with time. He’s probably still in the top five though. Prodigy from Mobb Deep would be in there probably. Maybe Tragedy Khadafi’s in there. RAKIM would probably be in there. Let’s try to get someone that’s not from New York…it’s gonna be hard. I don’t know if I can do it. Let’s go A.G. from DIGGING IN THE CRATES. That’ll be my top 5. GURU is one of my favorites too but I wouldn’t top 5 him. If you’re looking at skills, he probably wouldn’t be in there. Great lyrics though.
At the beginning, you started out talking about podcasts; did you discover any new music through podcasts? Either new bands that popped up or maybe even new releases that you discovered through there?
Probably, but nothing really that someone talked about something and I checked it out and thought it was great. What I have discovered is a lot of people that I thought would be really cool come off not so cool. And a lot of people from bands like, -you know, we’ll called it the Warped Tour scene, all those bands that would be in Alternative Press and stuff- sometimes when I check out those bands on podcasts, they come up very cool and sound like someone that I could hang out with, while I probably prejudged them and probably would think that me and this person wouldn’t really have much in common. I think that’s really cool and I hope we focus more on being surprised that someone’s cooler than you thought. Sometimes you listen to someone and you think they’re gonna be pretty cool and humble and they just come off as a diva and very egotistical.
So that’s a deal breaker for you for an artist, if you feel like this person is not sincere or doesn’t have good conduct or attitude? Then, you’re probably going to overlook that artist?
When we’re talking underground music, yeah. But if I were to meet, say, DMX and he kind of had an ego, and talked shit, well, I think that’s the way he comes across and I expect that out of him. But most underground people, I would hope are in the music for reasons more than money and fame. So when you come across like that to me, then I think you’re kind of…fake.
Make senses! You mentioned earlier listening to a lot of Youth Crew Hardcore. What would be some of your favorites demos or EP’s?
Both CHAIN OF STRENGTH seven inches are two of my favorite seven inches. The AGAINST THE WALL seven inches is really good. QUICKSAND seven inches, really good. I really like the TURNING POINT demo. I really like that band UNION OF FAITH. They put out a demo, maybe five years ago. It’s the people that did the band THE FIRST STEP, very Youth Crew. I think they never put anything else after that demo but it’s great. The ZERO TOLERANCE demo, I really like.
In terms of demo versus albums, is there any songs that you really believe the demo version was way better than the album or vice versa?
The first thing that comes to mind is that band NO ESCAPE from New Jersey. They had the same first track, Falling, on their demo as their next release. You know, there’s a lot of those. A lot of the songs that are on the Quicksand seven inches are also on the Slip album. You know, it’s tough to pull off because when you put that thing out, maybe a little more raw recording, and people connect with it and they like the way the vocals sound, they like all the rawness of it. Then you go into a studio and, maybe to you as a person, the songs are a little bit older so you don’t have as much direct energy when you’re playing it and it’s not as ferocious. I think a lot of times, the first one you put out is the better one. Maybe not better, but the one that the person hears first, and then you get a more slicker version of it, you’re probably going to usually gravitate towards the first raw one.
Is there any example that comes to mind though, where it’s the other way around? Where you couldn’t stand a demo but then the album pops up and it’s a brand new thing for you.
I wouldn’t say couldn’t stand but you hear the opinion a lot that people are in love with the CRO-MAGS demo more than Age Of Quarrel and I would definitely say Age Of Quarrel over that. For me, the energy and recording on Age Of Quarrel is really, really perfect. The demo is a little bit too lo-fi, if that’s the right word, for me.
I guess it depends also on which one you discover first. A lot of times, you’ll stick to the one that you discovered first and that becomes your go to, no matter what.
That’s a very good point, because I did hear Age Of Quarrel before the demo. Same thing with LEEWAY. Some of the same stuff that’s on the demo is on Born To Expire, but if I had the two in front of me, I would go straight to Born To Expire.
Are you into live records at all?
The AGNOSTIC FRONT Live at CBGB’s -I know there’s more than one of them, but I would call the real one the In Effect records one- That’s an amazing live records. That’s really really cool. Other than that, not my favorite thing. IRON MAIDEN, Live After Death, that’s pretty cool. If we sat here and you threw a list in front of me of Hardcore live records, something might jump out at me, but meh. I’d rather be at the show to see the live shit than listen to it.
What are some of the most memorable shows you’ve ever seen?
There’s obviously a whole bunch of ones that I got to play myself, and those are ultra special to me, but I don’t really want to talk about those. I’d rather talk about my golden era, which would be in Buffalo going to the River Rock Cafe, which was a shitty little bar in Buffalo. Shows there, I saw INSIDE OUT, QUICKSAND AND SHELTER. I think it was Shelter’s second show ever and Quicksand was with Walter just singing, no guitar and Charlie from OUTFACE on second guitar. That was great. I saw JUDGE there probably three times. VERBAL ASSAULT, EYE FOR AN EYE, UNDERDOG, SLAPSHOT several times. Slapshot shows in Buffalo were always very chaotic. SICK OF IT ALL played there with REST IN PIECES and ZERO TOLERANCE, that was an insane lineup.
Those are the first ones that come to mind. That’s my golden era where I didn’t know anyone in the bands, I didn’t care. I didn’t even know what guestlist was, I didn’t know what a backstage was. I would get there any way possible because I lived in the suburbs, and I didn’t have a license. I would get there and watch every band. Now, 30 years later, sometimes I’ll just go in, check out a band for a song or two, get the vibe and go outside and talk to people. But back then, it was watching every band. All I cared about was seeing every band and giving every band my energy and buying every demo I could and every fanzine with whatever little money I had. The time of just finding Hardcore and everything about it was pure. There was no drama. I didn’t care about any personal stuff with bands. No one knew who I was, I wasn’t anybody so there was no judgment on me. I was just a young guy loving every minute of it.
Is there any classic venue that you wish you could have experienced? Perhaps, one of your favorite venue ever but that you actually never got a chance to play there with your bands?
My brain went immediately to, there isn’t any, but I’m going to try to think a little bit more. I mean, the River Rock in Buffalo, the one I just talked about, my old band Slugfest played there, and then pretty much every venue I went to in Buffalo, one of my fucking bands played there. So Buffalo is pretty much covered. Then out of town, I was pretty much mostly going to these places just because my bands were playing. A lot of the places that I would travel to for shows, Syracuse, Rochester, Toronto, Erie, one way or another, one of my bands usually played these places. I’m probably wrong but there isn’t a venue that comes to mind that I wish I played there.
What is the band that you toured with, that really impressed you the most? The one that you just had to watch their set, night after night, no matter what.
I remember when Buried Alive went out with CANDIRIA, watching their drummer was just mind blowing. His drumming is insane. You know, it’s sad to say, but the thrill has worn off a touch. But touring with MADBALL and HATEBREED, you always want to watch both those bands because they’re amazing on stage and crowd reaction is always really cool. More recently, bands like STICK TO YOUR GUNS and WISDOM IN CHAINS, these are bands that, when they’re on stage, they’re amazing and have great songs and great sets. And then people wise, they’re fucking funny and can make you laugh all night but they’re also pretty smart, you can have real conversations with. So those are two bands that come to mind more recently that I really enjoy touring with.
Outside of that, I’m thinking, on that same Candiria tour was SKARHEAD so that was pretty interesting to watch them every night. When Terror did the Sounds of the Underground tour, BEHEMOTH was on it so that was always pretty much a spectacle to watch. When TRAPPED UNDER ICE got some momentum, their shows were always fucking amazing to watch. Every time I’ve been around NO WARNING, I love watching them, I think Ben really has an awesome stage presence and vibe. One thing that will always bum me out, Terror did this in Australia called Soundwave and it’s this huge thing with like 100 bands and huge bands -one year, IRON MAIDEN was the headliner- just crazy, crazy bands and GASLIGHT ANTHEM was on the tour for maybe five shows. I could have seen them five times but I didn’t care about them at the time. Then a few years later, they became a band I really love so I always kick myself in the butt for not getting involved earlier.
Is there any other bands that you always wanted to see but never got a chance to catch them?
Well, I never saw SIDE BY SIDE, that would have been cool. I’ve never seen RAKIM. Maybe now he’s a little bit older and a little less cool, but in his prime, it would have been cool. There’s got to be more Hardcore that I never saw…
It can go for Hip Hop too. Actually, are you a fan of live Hip Hop?
Most Hip Hop that I’ve seen live is horrible. Very spectacle and they always go on late and they’re always bitching about the microphones not sounding good. It’s disappointing for the most part. I saw The ROOTS and that was mind blowing. I saw RAEKWON in Chicago at a 500-cap venue and everyone in there singing every word, that was really cool. But for the most part, it’s not so good. I’ve been disappointed a lot. When I first moved to LA in 2002, there was so much going on around here, like DILATED PEOPLES and LIVING LEGENDS and VISIONARIES and stuff like that. There were opportunities but I don’t know…Very few times that I go to a Hip Hop show that was blown away. I saw FREDDIE GIBBS 5 years ago, that was really good live. JEDI MIND TRICK was good. There’s a few I’ve seen, but there’s more that I’ve seen and I just didn’t care.
Do you remember the first time that music had an impact on you?
I would say my mom’s boyfriend gave me the first two BLACK SABBATH albums on vinyl, the self-titled and Paranoid. He gave those to me when I was young, I’m talking like, third or fourth grade. You know what, actually before that, I think probably what sparked that is, I bought KISS Alive! at a garage sale. Maybe he saw that I was into that and gave me those two records. Then I was off to AC/DC, TWISTED SISTERS, RATT, IRON MAIDEN and all sorts of stuff like that. That’s kind of the way I got into heavy music. At the same time, my step brother gave me Run DMC Rock Box and WHODINI Escape and stuff like that, so I was kind of somewhere figuring both these things out at the same time.
Keeping up with the heavy music, what would you say are, in your opinion, three of the hardest riffs of all time?
*Laughing at how hard of a question it can be* The breakdown in Besiege The Masses by MERAUDER. It’s got this really heavy breakdown, and the lyrics are really vicious. Then it does this key change and to me, that’s one of the hardest parts. The first riff of the HATEBREED song Smash Your Enemies, that’s just an unbelievably heavy riff. SLAYER, the song Seasons in the Abyss, the last song on the record with the video with the boats and stuff, that one I would say, it’s not so heavy but so fucking evil! Super evil to me so I would put that in there.
What’s the first thing that strikes you when you listen to new music?
I probably look for lyrics and energy, more than awesome riffs and drumming. I mean, it’s the total package, but I’m definitely drawn to the lyrics.
What are some of the your favorite lyrics? Either a line, a song or the overall work of a lyricist?
I think the first H2O album has really good lyrics. I think GORILLA BISCUITS have really good lyrics. I think MADBALL has really good lyrics, AF’s Victim In Pain has really cool lyrics. Ray Beez and WAR ZONE, perfect lyrics. And a lot of Hip Hop stuff, like NAS, GURU have amazing lyrics. Prodigy from MOBB DEEP in a different way, he just has a slang and a language of his own that’s super cool. Whereas Guru and Nas have kind of more a touch of street education. Prodigy does that too, but he’s kind of doing it in more of a flaunting way about how cool it is. I think COLDPLAY has some really good lyrics. I think HOT WATER MUSIC has really good lyrics.
Is there any classic or universally acclaimed artist that you miss out on when they first came out and discoved way later? Or something that you didn’t like at first and then learned to appreciate over overtime?
Yeah, for sure. I would say Hot Water Music is my favorite band in the world and when I first heard them, I absolutely did not like them at all. Two members of Buried Alive introduced me to them and they were listening to them in the van and I just thought it was really bad. Then there was one song called a Three Summers Strong and it’s kind of an outside the box song for them, but it just drew me in and the lyrics again were really cool. I just remember, I wanted to hear that song more and more and more, then I wanted to hear more of the songs. Eventually, after years, they became my favorite band.
What’s your favorite Hot Water Music album now?
Probably No Division but Forever And Counting is good too. Probably those two.
Do you have any unpopular music opinions that you would like to defend? Something that you truly love but can hardly find anyone to agree with you?
I’ve noticed in the Hardcore scene recently, younger kids try to sell me that LEEWAY’s Desperate Measures is better than Born To Expire. I mean, Desperate Measures is an amazing record but for me, Born To Expire is perfection.
Otherwise, things that I love, that most people don’t…Oh, you know that band STAIN? Kind of a semi Nu Metal band? Yeah…I kinda like them! *Haha*
I like that it comes with a laugh!
Some songs are terrible but their ballads I like. Other stuff…I don’t consider CRO-MAGS the greatest Hardcore band ever. I know that’s a lot of people’s opinion. Again, a great band but not number one to me.
Oh, here’s another one. SEPULTURA’s stuff after Arise, I can’t stand. Chaos A.D. and all that borderline Nu Metal stuff, I don’t like it. Beneath The Remains and Arise, I really love. RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE, I cannot stand at all.
Is there actually any Rap Metal that you like?
I like E-TOWN CONCRETE but you probably won’t find too much after that.
What band or artist do you believe has achieved the most perfect sequence of three records in a row?
I think I will go with HATEBREED: Satisfaction, Perseverance and Rise Of Brutality. That’s unbelievable. I don’t think anything else is gonna beat that. Maybe if MADBALL was Set It Off, Demonstrating My Style, Hold It Down -nothing against Look My Way, it’s a great record but it’s a tiny bit of a dip- that might be able to hold up against that. AF, Victim In Pain, Cause For Alarm, Liberty and Justice for…, that’s pretty good but I’m still keeping Hatebreed.
Can you name five songs that you consider to be perfect, and tell us a bit about what makes them so special to you?
New Direction by GORILLA BISCUITS, the first song on the Start Today record. It starts with the horns, which is kinda like, what the fuck going on? Then it comes in with that little guitar riff by itself and it just goes into perfect melodic fast Hardcore with an amazing message. And a really cool breakdown.
Beholder Of Justice by HATEBREED. Not a slight to them because I just gave them the ultimate prop but it’s a little bit outside their wheelhouse and a little bit Metal, but that breakdown is one of the hardest things and it’s such a catchy hook and the lyrics are super cool.
N.Y. State Of Mind Pt. II by NAS. This perfect Premier beat and the lyrics and the piano sample, that’s pretty perfect.
There’s a song by COLDPLAY called We Never Change, which I think is one of my favorite songs. It’s just about the mood it sets and it’s really centered around the lyrics.
RIVAL SCHOOLS, which is Walter from QUICKSAND and Sammy, from so many bands in New York on drums. Rival Schools has a song called Undercovers On. Just the emotion in it, and the music and the lyrics to me, that’s another perfect song.
What are some up and coming bands that you’d like to recommend?
I really like DARE. They’re from Southern California, straight edge band. COMBUST from New York is really good. RULE THEM ALL from Long Island. A little more melodic, that’s really good. RISK IT! from Germany, they’re not so new, but I think they’re pretty important. NEVER ENDING GAME from Detroit, I like a lot. CHANGE, a new band from Seattle, with members of CHAMPION, that’s pretty fucking cool. Oh, my brothers’ band from Buffalo PURE HEEL is really fucking good. It’s also got the drummer from Buried Alive, Jesse, playing guitar. It’s kind of a Metal-less Hardcore, a really traditional Hardcore.
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